Comments on: Foretelling, After the Fact http://vocamus.net/jlh/2009/12/01/foretelling-after-the-fact/ Reading, writing, continental philosophy, documentary film, and, of course, fruit preserves Tue, 24 Apr 2012 18:06:21 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: jeremylukehill http://vocamus.net/jlh/2009/12/01/foretelling-after-the-fact/comment-page-1/#comment-1442 jeremylukehill Thu, 03 Dec 2009 12:56:14 +0000 http://vocamus.net/jlh/?p=1871#comment-1442 Curtis, You are posing an entirely different question than I am. Your question assumes that a prophesy is indeed true, and then asks whether acting according to this prophetic truth can or will avoid or accomplish the prophesy. My conclusion almost precludes this question, suggesting that the truth of untruth of the prophesy is something that is known and even constructed after the fact, and that any action inspired by prophesy can only be justified after the fact, if then. d, Thanks for the link. Curtis,

You are posing an entirely different question than I am. Your question assumes that a prophesy is indeed true, and then asks whether acting according to this prophetic truth can or will avoid or accomplish the prophesy. My conclusion almost precludes this question, suggesting that the truth of untruth of the prophesy is something that is known and even constructed after the fact, and that any action inspired by prophesy can only be justified after the fact, if then.

d,

Thanks for the link.

]]> By: d http://vocamus.net/jlh/2009/12/01/foretelling-after-the-fact/comment-page-1/#comment-1440 d Thu, 03 Dec 2009 03:21:12 +0000 http://vocamus.net/jlh/?p=1871#comment-1440 http://reverenteater.blogspot.com/2009/11/do-nothing-farming.html I think you will appreciate this post and the blog in general. http://reverenteater.blogspot.com/2009/11/do-nothing-farming.html

I think you will appreciate this post and the blog in general.

]]> By: Curtis Healy http://vocamus.net/jlh/2009/12/01/foretelling-after-the-fact/comment-page-1/#comment-1439 Curtis Healy Wed, 02 Dec 2009 23:43:39 +0000 http://vocamus.net/jlh/?p=1871#comment-1439 what I was asking, if I can sum it up concisely, which would be convenient for both of us, is that in folklore and myth, there exist the idea of approaching prophesy not from whether or not it is true or false, but whether your actions are formed from precipitous actions. The idea of chance and choice builds a difference between absolute certainty and possibility. For instance, at Galardriel's pool in LOTRs, which is a convenient example, she warns the hobbits not to read the visions and depart back to the shire- because concluding that the vision is true actually brings it into being and makes it certain, rather than a chance of certainty. There is this sense esp in Irish and Celtic myth that an action or judgement of truth impacts or creates supreme consequences in the world, leaving the path is an action of truth, they feared for their home because of a vision that is or is not true, for them to leave the path in truth, something must become true or decided to be true enough, and sets it in motion to happen. This is of course another paradox, that prophecy creates itself, which is a common element in science fiction time travel most definitely, my question was wether or not the book demonstrated that even doing nothing is a kind of this precipitous action, or did he touch on the idea, even though no one really does anything, like for instance, has a dream, confronts his attackers whom he dreamt about and inspires them to kill him because of that confrontation? I am not being concise but maybe I have been more thorough and direct in this description of what I mean. That doing nothing is still the same as leaving the path, or addressing the idea that leaving the path creates the events of the prophesy etc. what I was asking, if I can sum it up concisely, which would be convenient for both of us, is that in folklore and myth, there exist the idea of approaching prophesy not from whether or not it is true or false, but whether your actions are formed from precipitous actions. The idea of chance and choice builds a difference between absolute certainty and possibility. For instance, at Galardriel’s pool in LOTRs, which is a convenient example, she warns the hobbits not to read the visions and depart back to the shire- because concluding that the vision is true actually brings it into being and makes it certain, rather than a chance of certainty. There is this sense esp in Irish and Celtic myth that an action or judgement of truth impacts or creates supreme consequences in the world, leaving the path is an action of truth, they feared for their home because of a vision that is or is not true, for them to leave the path in truth, something must become true or decided to be true enough, and sets it in motion to happen. This is of course another paradox, that prophecy creates itself, which is a common element in science fiction time travel most definitely, my question was wether or not the book demonstrated that even doing nothing is a kind of this precipitous action, or did he touch on the idea, even though no one really does anything, like for instance, has a dream, confronts his attackers whom he dreamt about and inspires them to kill him because of that confrontation? I am not being concise but maybe I have been more thorough and direct in this description of what I mean. That doing nothing is still the same as leaving the path, or addressing the idea that leaving the path creates the events of the prophesy etc.

]]> By: jeremylukehill http://vocamus.net/jlh/2009/12/01/foretelling-after-the-fact/comment-page-1/#comment-1438 jeremylukehill Wed, 02 Dec 2009 14:01:49 +0000 http://vocamus.net/jlh/?p=1871#comment-1438 Curtis, I am not certain what you mean by your final question, but there are only two possibilities with prophesy: either it is true, or it is not. Because the judgment of this truth always comes after the fact, however, the prophesy only becomes recognized as true once it is already passed, once it is already history. This is the paradox of prophesy. Curtis,

I am not certain what you mean by your final question, but there are only two possibilities with prophesy: either it is true, or it is not. Because the judgment of this truth always comes after the fact, however, the prophesy only becomes recognized as true once it is already passed, once it is already history. This is the paradox of prophesy.

]]> By: Curtis Healy http://vocamus.net/jlh/2009/12/01/foretelling-after-the-fact/comment-page-1/#comment-1436 Curtis Healy Wed, 02 Dec 2009 00:37:33 +0000 http://vocamus.net/jlh/?p=1871#comment-1436 This gives me much to think about- however I wish to ask a question- in many stories of what seem to be, by your description a similar nature, in myth and folklore also, there's that classical tragic moment, where aware of the impeding possibility the victim innitiates their demise, because they prepare for the event, adjust for it, confront their future assailant and precipitate the unfortunate events, they leave the path of their quest and create a place of truth and almost give birth to the Crisis. Does this emphasise the indifference and oblivious displays as being those very actions? I am very curious about it. This gives me much to think about- however I wish to ask a question- in many stories of what seem to be, by your description a similar nature, in myth and folklore also, there’s that classical tragic moment, where aware of the impeding possibility the victim innitiates their demise, because they prepare for the event, adjust for it, confront their future assailant and precipitate the unfortunate events, they leave the path of their quest and create a place of truth and almost give birth to the Crisis. Does this emphasise the indifference and oblivious displays as being those very actions? I am very curious about it.

]]>